The following is the transcript of an interview with President Joseph Aoun and members of the Northeastern News executive board.

Click the headphones to the right to hear the original audio recording of this interview.

JOSEPH AOUN, PRESIDENT: Well, I would like to share something that is on my mind with you and see how we can work together and if you can help me with the concept, and also with the implementation of that. It’s a concept that has been on my mind for some time – and I feel that it is an important concept for society as a whole in the next 20 years, 30 years, and also for Northeastern, for reasons that I am going to share with you.

This is real brainstorming, take it as brainstorming. This is the first time that I’m sharing those reflections.

I feel that in many ways, the strength of what we have and in many ways, it is also a privilege, that we have an open society, and we take it for granted. And if you go all over the world, it is not something that you see everywhere, that we have an open city, an open society and an open community. And I feel in many ways the challenges that we are going to face – and we are facing as an open society – are such that they can take us away from this openness or reaffirm it.

Let me give you an example. You all know that we received the Homeland Security Center for Explosives Detection [grant]. Now, the interest of the research that is being done here about it is that it is being done with the idea to detect explosives on people when they are moving or on moving targets, whether it’s a car that is moving or people who are moving.

Now, why is it relevant? It is relevant because in many ways, the premise, the fundamental premise, is that we live in an open society, and as an open society, we don’t want to restrict liberties, we don’t want to restrict openness, and this type of research that we are committed to doing is the research that is based in this concept.

Let me give you another example that will be the opposite. If tomorrow morning we close a society and we resurrect a barrier around the campus or a barrier around the city of Boston, or a barrier around whatever we decide, and you say, ‘Well, finally we don’t have any problems,’ but we lost the major thrust of who we are – namely, an open society.

So I see that in the next 20 to 30 years, this notion of open society is going to receive challenges, many challenges, and it’s at all levels. I gave the example of Homeland Security. I can give you an example of urban health. Imagine the notion of epidemic; you know, there are epidemics that are going to be with us.

Now, we are an open society by definition, and our role, as a university, is to work on epidemics, is to work on diseases and to work on urban health, not only in terms of cures but also in terms of preventions. If you stay in your home and you spend your life in your home and you have a system that will take away all the germs, then that’s fine, you can live there, but that’s not an open society.

If you look at it from an educational perspective and what we are trying to do, all together, with the students and the faculty, is to ultimately provide an education and educate leaders who are committed ultimately to this concept of open society. We were born with it, we were raised with it but we cannot take it for granted, and that’s a major challenge. So from this perspective, in my mind, if society is going to be challenged along different dimensions – whether it’s security or health or environment – restricting the openness of the society is not the answer.

The challenge that universities will have is to provide an education that is committed to openness, and provide solutions that will not be restricting this openness in terms of research. And I feel that this discussion hasn’t taken place yet in higher education, and I feel – specifically with respect to Northeastern – it is very important to do it. And there is a balance here, a delicate balance that we always have to keep in mind between the rights of the individual and the rights of the community.

And if I look at Northeastern – Northeastern is not only the microcosm of an open society but also I am sincerely hoping that we are committed to that and that we have the leadership in this domain – the leadership not only as thought leaders but also as leaders as a community, as an institution that is providing solutions.

So I would like you to help me. That is the first time that I am talking about this concept, and I would like you to help me raise this discussion with the community.

I have every intention to do it and I would like your help, to rely on you, because I think this is a fundamental aspect of ultimately who we are, and whatever we do, and whatever issue we are facing, we should ultimately be driven by principles. And a fundamental principle is to preserve the openness of our society, and that is important, that’s very important. So that’s a general umbrella, and whatever issue we are going to face as a society or as a community, we should step back and look at it and say, ‘so where are we, the rights of the individuals, the rights of the community,’ that there is a balance between the two and there is an open system.

You see, the campus is open; we don’t have boundaries. After the shootings in various, unfortunately various universities, you know what happens – people started saying, ‘We should have closed campuses.’ Think about it, think about it: If we start having closed campuses, we are making a statement to ourselves and to the world that essentially, we cannot and don’t want to be engaged in an open system of education, communication and interaction.

That’s dangerous – we don’t want that. So that’s my thinking, and I really believe that we are going to be focusing on these issues as a society, even at all levels.

The other day, I heard the president of Shell in an interview, I don’t know where I read about it, saying that if the price of oil exceeds a certain level, it will trigger, or is expected to trigger, social unrest.

Now, if you think about it from this perspective, the research that we are doing on energy takes a social significance. The work that we are doing on the environment or on sustainability takes a social significance, and it’s framed along the lines of principles that I annunciated at the beginning. An open society that values the rights of the individual as well as the community and is always seeking a balance between the two – that’s really what I feel is going to drive us, and is driving us in terms of education and in terms of research. And I think if we can, as a community, start looking at this as one of the main drivers of what we do, and look at the specifics of what we do based on that, that could be very relevant to us.

That’s what I wanted to share with you. Any reaction, please feel free.

RICKY THOMPSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF: Well, something that kind of ties in with that, that you’ve put forward a lot this semester, is international co-op. How do you see that kind of tying into it? Seems like it plays into a direct theme with the idea of a campus not having barriers.

JA: Absolutely. I feel international co-op is essential for various reasons for us. As I mentioned in previous settings and the communiques, if you look at it from the following point of view: First, we are the leading power in the world, therefore the world knows about us more than we know about them. Believe me, you travel overseas, go talk to people who are living there, they know everything about the elections, about the debates. They even know about the soap operas. Why? Because we are the leading superpower in the world. In addition, they know more about us than we know about them. Second, English – as I mentioned – is becoming a universal language, and there are studies showing that if everybody speaks English, that the competitive advantage of a native English speaker is going to disappear. Why? Because everyone will know that.

Therefore, those who will have an advantage are those who are in command of another culture or at ease with another culture, another language in addition to English. And finally, everything is becoming global. The environment, for instance, when you look at the environment, what happens in Russia or the Middle East or China is impacting us in the same way that it is impacting them, so there are no boundaries, there are no boundaries.

And in addition, the world is not flat. It’s a falsity to think that we’re all alike. There are cultural differences, in terms of behavior, and we should celebrate them. That’s the meaning of diversity, not only locally but globally.

So the meaning, Ricky, for your question, is based on this context. International co-op is the best approach for our students to take advantage of something that we do in a unique way. That’s a differentiator, and that, given the international dimensions so that they are as much at ease in Boston or New York or Johannesburg or wherever, because frankly, we don’t know where we are going to end up. Even if we did end up staying in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, wherever it is, we are all impacted by trends that are beyond us, so we need to understand that and we need to impact that.

We need to really have social awareness of that. When I go – frankly, let me give you an example about the environment that was very telling. I was discussing my worry about the environment with people in China, and you know what they told me? They told me that, ‘Look, this is the western concentration now that you are promoting, not that we deny it but we are in a period of moving to the level of industrialization and economic prosperity where you are. You were and you are big polluters in the United States, and now you can afford to start radiating this issue, but we cannot afford it.’

If people perceive it from this perspective, that it behooves us to understand those dimensions, and also to work in such a way that is not viewed as something that is in the western construct but something that ultimately is going to be beneficial to the world as a whole.

So that is this awareness is essential, and that’s where international co-op is and it’s different from academic tourism. It’s not going to a palace in Florence and recreating a club. That is nice, and people talk to each other – the beauty of co-op is that you are living and working with people there.

RT: Well, given as you had discussed the importance of a student gaining a global perspective and participating in this, I think the fact is that among most students, international co-op is an expensive thing and it takes a certain type of student who has the resources to be able to do it. So given the importance of it, are there plans in store? Have you considered how the university could either give grants or additional financial aid or somehow support students participating in this?

JA: Let me tell you something – the other day, we had a service recognition dinner for the faculty and staff who have been around for five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. And it was in the Curry Student Center and it was during the service recognition dinner that I saw a banner saying ‘Support international co-ops and not apartments in London,’ and I loved it. Why? Because people were saying, ‘We are interested in international co-ops, let’s discuss what the challenges are.’ It is not, ‘Oh, why should we go for an international co-op? Why should we bother about China? Why should we bother about Africa, about India, about Europe? No, the level of the discourse was a great level, and going back to your question – is it challenging, more challenging, to go on an international co-op, not only for financial reasons?

Financial reasons are real, and they are there. We have financial challenges – but also cultural challenges, for instance. When you go there, it’s going to be a cultural shock, so our mission is to prepare you, when you go there, so that you already have some preparation, some inkling, some understanding that will be deepened.

That’s why, for instance, we are recruiting also international students. So why are we interested in international students? It’s really the opportunity to have the community that is multidimensional, so to go back to your question about the challenges, there are many challenges, once you move there. Some are financial, some are educational, some are cultural.

We cannot shy away from an issue when we put it on the table. The beauty of the community, of an open community like ours, is to say, ‘Is it desirable to go for an international co-op? And if yes, then what can we do?’

Last year, you’ll remember what happened with the languages. Our students – your colleagues – started a club, a foreign language club, and suddenly 700 students signed up. You remember that last year? Well, what did it mean? For me, it meant that there is a demand.

And that was great, because all of the international co-op challenge is to prepare people to have another language. Listen, we as a society, we, in the United States, we are behind others in terms of foreign languages. We start studying foreign language relatively late.

Take Holland, they start studying foreign languages very early. Even from a maturation perspective, by the age after eight or nine, you miss the best part of your life to acquire languages. I’m a linguist, after all, I know something about that.

So what do we do in our country and in our school system? We start late, after this optimal time. So the best way to learn a language, to have intensive language training here, is with preparing the students, and obviously when they move to an international co-op opportunity they will deepen that.

So you see, you’re absolutely right, there are challenges. There is not only one dimension, there are many dimensions, and we have to work on each one of them as a community and say, ‘This is needed, this is needed, this is needed, let’s have a plan for that,’ and it’s not going to happen overnight that we’ll all have solutions, absolutely.

RT: Mr. President, with all due respect, you know, I understand that there are other challenges with it, especially the cultural challenges and learning the language and so forth, but for a school like Northeastern that has its roots within the YMCA, which was a commuter school, which was a working-class school, I think the financial aspect is a big sticking point.

You can learn a language and learn the culture, but you can’t just study and all the sudden have the money to afford the trip.

So back to that – do you see or has it been discussed or are plans in the works to support students doing this financially?

JA: We’re looking at various plans. We’re looking also at the fundraising options. We’re looking at everything possible because that’s a real challenge, and don’t forget, the dollar is very low now, so not only is it more expensive in normal times but given the fact that the dollar now is way lower than other currencies, that’s a real challenge – absolutely.

RT: So given that, what kind of steps could you tell us that the university or you have considered in terms of addressing this?

JA: We are – not we have – we are considering, we are in the process of considering various steps, including trying to see what kind of support can be provided to bridge the students, etc. I invite you also to meet with [Vice Provost for Experiential Education] Jack Greene along these lines, but that’s an ongoing discussion about that. We’re very aware of this, absolutely. It’s the same challenge actually that happened historically at Northeastern, when co-ops started going outside Boston, when it moved outside of New England, when it moved outside of the East Coast. Same thing.

So it’s not going to be, so what you’re telling me – is it a major challenge? Absolutely. Is it the only challenge? No. But we’re looking at various possibilities, from financial support to the other – but as an educator, you have to realize, I cannot look only at one challenge.

The beauty of our education is that it’s comprehensive, so I have to look at every possible challenge. The cultural challenge is there. I have some students telling me, ‘Why should I go there? I’m happy here. What can I learn from others? We have the best possible system in the world.’ Yes, but the world is changing and the world is impacting you even if you live here.

That’s a challenge that you can help me with, with this discussion. That’s a big cultural shift. We don’t feel the need to go elsewhere, we have the best university system in the world.

Attracting people, that’s a challenge. The financial challenge, that’s a challenge. The linguistics challenge is a challenge, etc., etc. Frankly, beyond that we have a circle of friends around us after a year, two years, three years. If you go on international co-op, one of the challenges is connectedness. How are we going to remain connected? These are all questions.

RT: But those are all gaps that can be bridged. I’m just not sure that we’re touching on it. Do you have any idea, in terms of the timetable – especially with it being stressed so much now, the importance of going on an international co-op. I was talking with students even as recently as this week about the financial restraints, and I think at the end of the day, the financial restraints are something that you either have or you don’t.

JA: Look Ricky, I already acknowledged it and I agreed with you, the financial restraints are real and major, but I don’t want you to tell me that’s the only restraint or the only construct. We are looking at everything. Our job, as educators and as an open community, is to put the issues on the table and invite discussion, brainstorming, debate.

It would have been much easier for us and for me not to stress international educations until everything has been worked out and to be very conservative.

The beauty of academic freedom in an open community is you put a idea on the table and invite the various members of the community to come together and say, ‘Tell us what the issue is.’ And that’s what we’re doing.

I am not going to play it safe. I am not going to come to you with things that are all figured out and say, take it or leave it. I’m not doing that. And today is a good example of that. I am coming to you to share with you ideas, concepts, directions and say,

Let’s work together on these directions and, see how we can meet them there. That’s a different approach. It’s not an easy approach. It’s not an approach of someone coming and telling you, ‘I have all the answers for you and this is it, this is the package.’ I open a discussion, a brainstorming, a change of attitude and say, if we believe as a university that this is important, that we’re going to have a financial challenge, many gaps, not one gap – financial, cultural linguistic, etc., and then, how we are going to address them one by one.

And you’re going to see results. But I’m inviting you to be a forum, The News, a forum for discussion, not a forum for edicts.

I’m not coming with edicts. I’m coming with an open, and that’s the concept that I started with. An open communication system. I’m not a governor or the president of a republic. I’m a member of a community and I’m inviting the community to work on issues if they see if those are important issues.

RT: Husky Nation. Although I guess that’s [Vice President for Alumni Relations] Jack Moynihan …

JA: That’s an important point you made, and let me give you a different perspective. If you think that Husky Nation as a concept is Jack Moynihan, that means that we have failed with the concept.

RT: Well Jack Moynihan as president was the remark that [Red Sox president] Larry Lucchino [mispronounces name] had made in Florida.

JA: What?

RT: Larry Lucchino [mispronounces name].

JA: Lucchino [corrects pronunciation]. What did he make?

RT: He said that he nominated Jack Moynihan as president of Husky Nation.

JA: It was a … I thought that the concept … no that’s cute, that was cute.

RT: Along the same terms about the outward barriers … in terms of when Northeastern had started looking at … students had started expanding on co-op outside of the East Coast. I think at the start it could be said that a lot of the students that were going on co-ops outside of the area might have been going home for co-ops or at least regions that they were familiar with.

So I guess from that, as we start to look internationally, what is Northeastern keeping in mind as it looks to going to different cities? Is it looking for sustainable jobs that could be refilled again? Or is it more about having 52 cities so that we can continue to expand? Is it one student in each city or are they jobs that continue to repeat?

JA: No, it’s neither. I want to be able as a community … Look, the other day I was walking on campus and a student [approached] me and she said … look, I am interested in shaping my own co-op, my own international co-op, and, you know, I know people who are in, you know, X, and they have … They are part of an industry, but also this industry has connections with an “NGO,” you know, a non governmental organization. And she said, you know, ‘Is it a problem for me if I build a co-op that is tailor made to me?’ I said, ‘No.’

I mean, obviously the question is, how are you going to do it-the quality, etc. All the traditional questions. But it is not about numbers. It’s about opportunities and the philosophy. Why do we do international co-ops? Even if tomorrow morning we decide all international co-ops … all our students decided to go to one city, which is not the case. But imagine that.

What drives us to evaluate or to move in a direction? It’s a philosophy. What is the philosophy behind international education and co-op? I mentioned that to you in the beginning, I spent 10 minutes.

So it’s not 52 cities. Fifty-two cities is a number. Actually, in fact, we are exceeding it, as you saw from the publications of the … you know … there.

It’s not having one in each city. It’s really saying the world is a classroom. And beyond that, we are committed as a community to remain an open environment, and that’s why we need to understand the challenges that the world faces, because they impact us.

That’s a great question you raised. It’s really not driven by numbers. You know, you mentioned, you know, those are data points. But data points do not give you the real principles that are driving an institution or a community. They reflect it.

RT: Under the same, I understand it’s not about the numbers, but it makes sense to put it in perspective about the numbers. And the 52 has been the key number lately is it that when you say we have 52 … we have co-ops in 52 cities internationally, is it that we have them right now?

JA: It is that in fact either we have them right now, we have students who went there or have students who are going there, and Jack Greene will give you all the details. But once again, once again, it’s not a number game. You know the … As I mentioned, it’s much more important.

My desire is ultimately-and I know this is not realistic-my desire is that every student that comes to Northeastern thinks about an international co-op.

Do you think it’s realistic? Absolutely not, for the time being, no. Do you think that we can dream? Absolutely. Do you think that we can widen that the number of students going and looking at international opportunities, yes.

And why are we doing it? And incidentally, there is something else I forgot to mention that’s very important to me. In the communiques I sent I didn’t focus only on international co-ops. I focused also on other aspects including the dialogue of civilizations. Are you aware of this dialogue of civilizations? I love this program. Why do I love this program? For the same reason. Because in fact we have students not going for academic tourism but going spending time with other students and other institutions over there. So the focus is how can we provide a global education? And not to focus on a number, or something like that. The number is to surprise in many ways, when I mentioned that people are surprised … Really? I didn’t know that. That’s interesting. Numbers are driven by concepts, by principles.

RT: And not to harp on the other point.

JA: Continue harping on any point you want.

RT: But by putting it out in the forefront like you said, taking the chance to put it out there, without something like the financial support and the idea behind it and a plan in place, doesn’t that separate students from the haves and the have-nots?

JA: If nothing happens, you see, if nothing happens, yes. If nothing happens, absolutely. We had … I had the first call that I had in mind is to put the issue on the table. And the fact that it’s picking up steam and raising further questions is good. It’s great.

That’s what an academic community is all about. An academic community is about raising questions and providing answers. Absolutely.

So if next year when you come back or your colleagues come back and they we’re still at this standstill, nothing has happened along certain gaps, financial and otherwise, it’s time for us to say what’s happened, absolutely, absolutely. But I don’t want to shy away from putting issues on the table.

Today I put one about what drives our education. What drives our culture. It’s commitment to an open society, it’s a commitment to the balance between the right of individuals and the right of the community. That’s what drives us.

This is, you know, this is not going to be an easy balance, everything we see. Now, we are a community that has to raise questions, but also doesn’t … we should do it in the spirit of – we are working all together on the answers and not, ‘Oh, the administration is there, they raised an issue, they didn’t provide answers. That’s bad.’ Or, ‘What, students are doing that? My god! What, you know, how can they behave in this way in the community or otherwise?’ No. We’re all part of the same community.

Remember, at some point, when in one of the meetings you asked me, what do you think of people, of our students, when they get, you know, in trouble with the community or get taken by police, etc. And you know what I told you? I told you I feel extremely bad because a member of the community is, you know, is in a way in a difficult situation, therefore we are all in a difficult situation.

So, I don’t … I want us to reach a level where we are not looking at, we have the administration, we have staff, we have students and we have all these groups. No. It’s one community, and if you believe in a community you believe in an open system of communication.

That means you are taking questions and working on them all together.

You know, I’m considering every student as a colleague. Every student as a colleague. Every member of the community as a colleague. I’m not looking at you. I am here to tell you the truth. And I don’t want to you to look at me as … I want you to, before you say anything, to give me all the answers. No. You don’t want that, I don’t want that.

That’s the beauty of being in this community. And that’s what we need more of. We have big questions. We can afford to have that and say, What are the big questions that are driving society and how are we addressing them?

RT: On a different note, but kind of ties into what you mentioned, and I remember when we discussed it before that, with the arrests in Mission Hill, when students are having a problem they feel the same issue …

JA: Do you have a brother or sister?

RT: Yeah, I have a younger sister.

And so recently with the city legislation, the “no more than four” law, which Northeastern had backed, some students started feeling as though the university – not to tie up the administration into it, not to turn it into anything like that-sometimes embraces students when it feels it’s in its best interest, with student leaders, community service, academics.

But in other times it might distance itself somewhat by supporting this, which some students do feel makes it harder for them within the community, could create a housing struggle off campus, could raise rents and so forth. But it was favorable to the community in most regards, and it was favorable to Mike Ross, who’s the city councilor.

What do you feel about that? Do you think that’s a fair assessment?

JA: Yes and no. The ‘no’ is the following. I’m concentrating on the ‘no.’ The university is a community and our students, when they live in the community, are part of the community. And we have obligations and we have responsibilities, and frankly we have privileges at all levels.

That’s the concept of open society, again, and that’s the concept of the balance between the rights of individuals and the rights of collectivity. That’s exactly another manifestation of that.

Now, our students at the same time, we’re not all of the same mind about it. Some students said it makes sense and some students said it doesn’t make sense. You’ve heard that. You heard the debate and in various forums here on campus.

In my mind the main question here if we go back to the balance, what does it tell us about what’s happening in the communities? It tells us on one side we are succeeding tremendously and on the other side we are challenged. How? I mentioned that when I was at the SGA (Student Government Association) meeting the other day.

I went, you know, I often go to the community and what was in Mission Hill. And I said … Community leaders grabbed me and said, ‘you know, your students are doing this your students are doing that your students are doing X, Y and Z. They don’t have respect of the community. They litter. They’re noisy. They party to four o’clock in the morning, etc. They throw their drinks.’ And then another person part of the same group said, ‘I am very distraught.’ I said, ‘why are you distraught?’ And she said, ‘We have this wonderful student and she’s involved in he community and she’s doing this and this and she’s involved in various community projects and she’s leaving.’

I said, ‘Why is she leaving?’ She said, ‘She’s graduating. ‘ I said, ‘That’s our goal, to graduate students.’

But what does it tell us? It tells us that some students are really moving the agenda of the community with the community and some students are saying we are not part of the community.

So, as educators, what we have to do is have a real dialogue among ourselves and with the community. You know that this restriction between five and four that you mentioned – what triggered that? Tell me, what triggered that?

RT: Mike Ross put it through because …

JA: No, but what triggered that? Why did he put it through?

RT: Because the people who turn out to vote for him are community members, not students.

JA: No, but what does it tell you? It tells you that there is a rift between some members of the community and some students.

That’s what we want to go beyond. If we are really committed to the community and we are not part of this community there is something wrong. If the community views us as a nuisance or a foreign body, then that’s a big challenge that we have to address.

It’s not the number of five or four. They could have done it at six or three. It’s a symptom that is revealing something important.

Let’s look at it. What does it reveal? It’s revealing the fact that the community is looking at us-and I said us, I didn’t say the students-as a foreign body. If this is the case, we have work to do. That’s the challenge and that’s what drives us. So it’s not … everything … you are a student here and you know that every symptom has a cause. So what is causing this symptomatic reaction? That’s it. So in my mind as an educational institution we have made enormous strides and positive reinforcement